tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post6979318834990061613..comments2023-03-31T19:51:32.705+03:00Comments on Failed State Latvia?: What has Latvia's transition turned into? - a comment on political scientist Iveta Kažoka's viewsJuris Kažahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10052208772017734513noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-87205336642614975132012-02-14T15:30:52.092+02:002012-02-14T15:30:52.092+02:00To izhnannyk,
The first independence was fought f...To izhnannyk,<br /><br />The first independence was fought for and won by Latvians,the patriotic value of winning a war and freeing your country is quite substantial, thus the democratic process was fine tuned and ready to start it's engines properly, the second one however was a miscarriage, which left the country severely malnourished, unhealthy and on the brink of death, not to mention the 50 years of totalitarian communist oppression.Edgarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-26306254368044720102012-02-13T18:23:23.428+02:002012-02-13T18:23:23.428+02:00Two decades of independence after WWI, two decades...Two decades of independence after WWI, two decades of independence after the collapse of the USSR. During the first independence, the education system was excellent; now it's a disaster. During the first independence, the economy was pretty good, and even during the Depression better than most; now it is in a depressing rut. During the first independence, there were real political parties; now there are cheering squads for self-seeking exploiters. So far at least there has not been a coup to install a dictator, but in other respects the comparison is not encouraging. Have there been any studies of *why* Latvia was such a success story between the World Wars and why post-Soviet LV has not done as well?izhnannykhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02940691976828698895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-56304177574483096042012-02-13T13:01:21.586+02:002012-02-13T13:01:21.586+02:00I find both takes interesting, but I tend toward J...I find both takes interesting, but I tend toward Juris's view, and that of Stulbais Anglis. Juris didn't even get to education, which is a mess. Consider reading habits: <br /><a href="http://www.apollo.lv/portal/life/articles/213179" rel="nofollow">Latvijas skolēnu attieksme pret lasīšanu sliktāka nekā Āfrikā.</a> Consider research papers: <a href="http://blogi.politika.lv/index.php?id=61720" rel="nofollow">The sorry state of higher education (and research).</a> Even if we put Estonia aside as a stellar exception, look at Latvia's <a href="http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/R_%26_D_expenditure" rel="nofollow"> R & D expenditure.</a> All of these dismal things will have consequences even if the course changes -- and most of all, the demographic collapse will. One can foresee other problems in the areas so optimistically depicted. The lack of ethnic conflict, for example. True enough so far, and admirable. We have an extremely divided society nevertheless -- and that divide seems to be growing, not diminishing, as the loudness of the referendum rhetoric would indicate... and support for co-official status for Russian, anathema to most Latvians is more prevalent precisely among the young (troubling even if we consider it a protest vote). There are, of course, plenty of wonderful things, some of them flourishing since the crisis brought us down to earth. There's a notable increase in alternative culture that's less formal and more self-reliant. But even in such areas -- serious <i>darvas pilieni:</i> <a href="http://www.diena.lv/kd/literatura/izlodzijies-vai-izlodzits-13927256" rel="nofollow"> Izļodzījies vai izļodzīts?</a>Pēteris Cedriņšhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14427626605836088551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-25773752949342248912012-02-13T11:45:38.203+02:002012-02-13T11:45:38.203+02:00I believe one can always find the necessary number...I believe one can always find the necessary numbers to prove that nothing has ever been as terrible, futile and just plain bad as it is today. Nothing could be easier. Take US, UK, Sweden or any other non-"failed state" for example, and similar themes that describe their country growing ever worse with each passing moment can be read in almost every newspaper. And, yet, we look up to these countries, somehow believing here all is wrong and there all is swell. Yes, a lot of numbers are bad, but a lot of them are good, and ultimately we have gone a very, very long way in the right direction from where we were 20 years ago. It is deliberately misleading to not recognize that. <br /><br />I think Ivetas article was great, as it tried to pragmatically identify our common faults as a society, but also to define our strong points. Even if the observations are subjective and deal with psychological, not economic aspects, still, one could say that is was a pretty good starting point for a Latvian SWOT analysis. I'm sorry if that sounds too harsh, but your post only invites that traditional Latvian wallowing in pointless self-pity, and if we talk about stagnation, I believe this attitude is the main reason behind it. More action and self-criticism, less wallowing and self-pity, and I believe the road will lead upwards :)Līvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05559727483281022779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-13695161600117715632012-02-13T11:11:54.322+02:002012-02-13T11:11:54.322+02:00I find it funny that the author wants Latvian peop...I find it funny that the author wants Latvian people to trust the Latvian government.<br /><br />I believe that Latvians should trust honest people and should distrust dishonest people. There is no point encouraging Latvians to trust people who are dishonest.<br /><br />If Latvia has "rule of law" in the future (i.e. all of the oligarchs are in prison) then Latvians should trust the government. Not before.John Christmashttp://www.democracysociety.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-80848372827359274342012-02-12T21:05:59.294+02:002012-02-12T21:05:59.294+02:00Thank you, Juris, for your excellent observations ...Thank you, Juris, for your excellent observations about my essay! And yet I'm still an optimist :) I believe that Latvia has finished its transit to democracy and is already a country that the rest of the world can learn from. C'mon, is there any other country (except Switzerland or some of US states) that has had 5 referenda in 5 years without people doing anything stupid? Is there any other country where people have basically voted the most powerful oligarchs out of power? :)<br /><br />Of course, the economic indicators if we compare them to what they were in 2008 look quite bad (as well as emigration numbers). But I believe that it was something to be expected - provided that we have just survived a crisis and consolidation measures unprecedented for a developed democracy. The number will get better, if everything is more or less alright with Eurozone.<br /><br />The trust in Latvia's institutions is nothing to be proud of, but they are not dismal - actually not that far from EU average. It really depends on how you approach them - whether you are or are not prepared to describe some 6-7 additional EU member states as failed states. The trust in political parties is around (EU average - 14%) - the same as in Hungary, Slovenia, France, Italy, Greece, Czech Republic, Lithuania. Trust in government - 19% (EU average 24%). Higher than Greece (8%), Spain (16%), Romania (10%), Lithuania - 18%, Slovenia (12%), Czech Republic (15%). Trust in parliament - 14% (EU average 27%). The same or higher than in Czech Republic, Greece, Italy, Lithuania, Romania.<br /><br />Basically, we're doing fine, provided the circumstances. We've never had more professional and less corrupt people in government and forming majority in parliament. I do believe it sets the scene for higher growth in the future. We have one neighboring country there to catch - and I mean Estonia, of course. It's THEM, not Latvia which is the odd country out of the former Soviet bloc. I would even say that the real question is not what makes Latvia deficient (because we are not - neither globally, nor regionally), but what makes Estonia exceptional. Just look at their numbers! Trust in parliament - 40%; trust in government - 49% (EU average again: 24 %!) So they are definitely doing something right. Better than the rest, we included. That means at least theoretically we can as well. But at first we have to lose the loser mentality - we are not a failed state; we're totally a success story in the eyes of people living in Ukraine, Moldova, Romania, Armenia, Bulgaria, and India. In some matters – in the eyes of people living in ANY other country :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02263862595700546656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-89346670573015366992012-02-12T20:04:13.303+02:002012-02-12T20:04:13.303+02:00I admire Iveta's optimism but can see no found...I admire Iveta's optimism but can see no foundation for it, although I agree with her about some of the problems.<br> I'm British, but have lived in Latvia for ten years and was a frequent visitor before that. I wonder how much experience Iveta has of life in rural Latvia?<br>Alcoholism is the norm amongst the male population. Not much sign of self-esteem here. Maybe she sees a growing intolerance for superficial glamour in Rīga - again, no sign of it here.<br> If anyone thinks beyond the acquisition of their next bottle of strong ale it's only to dream of the acquisition of a beat-up BMW. Look at personal ads for an idea of Latvian thinking "Wanted, pretty girl, slim, under 23" It would also never occur to a Latvian male that maybe he should sell his attributes rather than expecting a girl to rush to him because she feels she may meet what HE wants. And, in this society, maybe he's right. First level thinking is all there is here.<br> Television shows unrelenting dumbed-down crap all the time. You get crap all over the world but there's usually <i>something</i> of value. Not in Latvia. Even when we buy foreign shows we only buy the worst. Even the, oh so popular, news is simply cosmetic in coverage. No in-depth analysis or even background reporting. It's just aimed to go in one ear and out the other. Succeeds too! State control of media has simply been replaced with unfettered commercial control (by sponsors and advertisers) No one even recognizes that it's a problem. Neatkarīga my arse!<br>Uncontrolled consumerism rules. Every company suddenly decides it's cool to claim to be founded 100+ years ago. Sure, stick it on the packaging. No one's going to ask! <br> The government are like schoolchildren trying to govern themselves. Standards of education are a joke. Racism, homophobia and stulbi patriotism are rampant. Lack of education and knowledge mean that most people are ripe pickings for every pyramid selling scheme that comes along.<br> If you are Latvian and want to develop, my strong advice to you would be to get out of Latvia fast. The best hope for Latvia is that everyone leaves and experiences different societies, values and attitudes around the world then come back as more rounded individuals. I don't see many coming back though despite their protestations when they leave.<br> Sorry to sound so negative. I know it's not Latvians' fault. I know that many of you don't really understand what I'm complaining about. That's the real problem really "What's wrong with that anyway?" "Tas ir normāls." <br>One of the most worrying things for me is how many young children I meet who are like old men. They have the same blinkered attitudes as their grandparents. That has to change somehow.<br> God help Latvia if Iveta is correct and the country is no longer in transition. If she's wrong, at least there's still hope.<br>Stulbs Anglisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-66477853436152232882012-02-12T18:51:22.540+02:002012-02-12T18:51:22.540+02:00Juri! You have lived and worked in very different ...Juri! You have lived and worked in very different countries and societies. Do you have any idea which ideas should we take from, lets say, Sweden — and make them work in Latvia? Otherwise we all are concerned with finding the right diagnosis for Latvia, but where is the cure…?Anonīmais Šakālisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-43681543237312685192012-02-12T18:50:17.893+02:002012-02-12T18:50:17.893+02:00Thanks for a very interesting post, Juri! I, too, ...Thanks for a very interesting post, Juri! I, too, am rather cautious about Iveta's optimistic view on the matter. I, for one, see quite a lot of indications that the Latvian society (or polity, for that matter) is still "in transition". There are some signs of improvement (e.g., the fight against corruption is not seen as an extravagant occupation), but when it comes to attitudes, institutions, and administration among many other things, there, still, is a huge room for improvement. One critical point though: neither you, nor Iveta, really, have a clear point of reference (benchmark, if you will) - what counts as "society in transition" and what counts as something else than "society in transition". This leads to rather subjective reflections on the levels of improvement and therefore you run a risk that you don't take into account what has happened since, let's say, 1992. In my opinion, it would be advisable to present some comparative data, just to illustrate your thoughts. Has alcholism increased/decreased since 1992? Has the levels of mutual trust increased/decreased since 1992? Has corruption levels increased (or decreased) since 1992? I guess there might be some problems with getting comparable and reliable data for 1992, but still. Despite this nerdish advise, I think this is a great response! I did enjoy reading your post!Peterishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649334784556807443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7590025.post-4710025831741320332012-02-12T18:49:05.829+02:002012-02-12T18:49:05.829+02:00Thanks for a very interesting post, Juri! I, too, ...Thanks for a very interesting post, Juri! I, too, am rather cautious about Iveta's optimistic view on the matter. I, for one, see quite a lot of indications that the Latvian society (or polity, for that matter) is still "in transition". There are some signs of improvement (e.g., the fight against corruption is not seen as an extravagant occupation), but when it comes to attitudes, institutions, and administration among many other things, there, still, is a huge room for improvement. One critical point though: neither you, nor Iveta, really, have a clear point of reference (benchmark, if you will) - what counts as "society in transition" and what counts as something else than "society in transition". This leads to rather subjective reflections on the levels of improvement and therefore you run a risk that you don't take into account what has happened since, let's say, 1992. In my opinion, it would be advisable to present some comparative data, just to illustrate your thoughts. Has alcholism increased/decreased since 1992? Has the levels of mutual trust increased/decreased since 1992? Has corruption levels increased (or decreased) since 1992? I guess there might be some problems with getting comparable and reliable data for 1992, but still. Despite this nerdish advise, I think this is a great response! I did enjoy reading your post!Peterishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649334784556807443noreply@blogger.com